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Vinyl vs 2003 remasters

olavi
Member #21,090

Num Posts: 113
Country: Finland


WOW! I was listening Highway To Hell on vinyl the other day, and noticed a huge difference between it and the 2003 remasters. In the remaster phil's drums are missing all the bass and all instruments sound like they are morphed into each other. The vinyl gives you a whole new listening experience. Very well produced record. Has anyone else noticed this? How does the earlier cd pressings sound?
BonScott46t80
Member #4,095

Num Posts: 292
Country: US


or maybe just your CD player/MP3 player is messed up. sounds fine to me. the bass drums is not missing at all.
imma_rocker
Member #8,405

Num Posts: 677
Country: US


vinyl all the way, analog over digital all the way, as long as its raw and untouched, thats the biggest disadvantage analog quality deteriorates gradually
jessestorozuk
Member #20,764

Num Posts: 380
Country: Canada


yup. just what imma_rocker said. vinyl kicks ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
jspr96
Member #24,943

Num Posts: 260
Country: US
BANNED


Vinyl is so much better when it comes to sound. I spin my vinyls and compare them to the same cd and the sound definitely is more crisper. I have heard others say the same and in fact I believe vinyl is on the comeback since some groups are coming out with vinyl copies of albums.
todds68camaro
Member #8,579

Num Posts: 62
Country: US


I totally agree with the vinyl comments. Nothing can compare to great quality pressings.
sapator
Member #210

Num Posts: 1,619
Country: Greece


Vinyl is not on the comeback, forget it. Also to understand the difference you need a proper stereo and they tend to eclipse these days. But a better comparison would be DVD audio vs Vinyl because DVD has a broader range, although i believe Vinyl would sound better again. Anyway am not a vinyl guy so i probably said enough.
Jailbreakes
Member #24,029

Num Posts: 271
Country: New Zealand


You guys just reminded me, I saw a vinyl of Black Ice in a shop the other day. I didn't know they released it on vinyl?
BonScott46t80
Member #4,095

Num Posts: 292
Country: US


i'm not saying cd's or mp3's are better than vinyl or anything. i love vinyl just as much as the next guy. but no one besides me has really referenced the guy's original question. haha.
nightprowler1226
Member #3,537

Num Posts: 510
Country: US


LMMFAO, here we go again with this question, vinyl is always better sounding than cd's period. vinyl uses the full frequency range of sound,cd's do not,they have a very limited frequency range. also,cd's take a analog source,converts it to digital & then converts it back to analog & in the process,it looses some of the frequencies. think of like this,the analog source is converted into digital with 1's & 0's by a computer,a computer can only do so much with this info & looses some of the orginal frequencies to do this, then your cd player takes these 1s & 0's converts them back to analog & again,more info is lost in the conversion. there are many other reasons that vinyl sounds better & you can find them all online in many different articles,just do a search for them.
nightprowler1226
Member #3,537

Num Posts: 510
Country: US


here a pretty good article on this matter: http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-Vinyl-Records-Sound-Better-Than-CD Why does it sound better? Some people have a bit of an obsession with vinyl. Maybe it's just because they think it is vintage and therefore cool. Maybe they are just old school and not want to move on. Maybe they are complete audiophiles and love their music that much. Most people understand that vinyl sounds better then CD's and other modern digital equivalents such as DVD, mp3 and other software based recordings. However, the actual reasons why it sounds better are not so widely known. At first glance it might seem a bit complicated but it is in fact quite simple. It basically comes down to the difference between analog and digital signals. Analog, by definition, is a continuously variable signal. This means that changes in frequency are represented by a smooth wave. Basically, this means that a change in frequency between two values will occur by moving through the complete range in between them. The result accurately sounds out every tiny change. This is shown by the first graph below. Vinyl Records For Sale Valuing Vinyl Records Learn how to value your vinyl record collection Vinyl Records For Sale Find vinyl records for sale worldwide Digital Encoding In order to encode a similar signal onto digital media such as a CD or DVD, a conversion from analog to digital is required. No matter how good the conversion is, there will always be losses which occur through the transition. Technology may get better and better, reducing these losses but it is effectively impossible (at least in modern times), to reproduce an analog signal exactly with digital data. Take our previous example of a gradual change between two frequency values. Now, we have a series of discrete changes between them. Imagine if you were told to sing from as low as you can up to as high you can using only three different tones. You would sing low, a medium note and then high. This is a very extreme example, but shows what we mean by discrete steps. Improved technology would allow you to change frequencies more often in the same period, say 5 times. Now you have a closer reproduction of the original smooth variant, but it still isn't great. This is shown by the second graph in the picture above. Given that the human ear works at a higher resolution than our current technology, a trained ear can easily hear the difference between an analog and even a high resolution digital signal. This is exactly the reason why so many people prefer vinyl records to their digital equivalents.. We haven't even got to the point of software level encoding. MP3's and other files incur yet another layer of losses which further reduces the quality in audio. Try listening to a vinyl record after an equivalent mp3 and if you can't tell the difference, there might be something wrong with you! Just kidding, but there is a very clear difference. There are certain audio formats such as FLAC, which are higher resolution digital encodings, but this is when compared with a CD track. In other words, it is still digital, and still does not replicate the sound in the same way as a live performance or a vinyl record. Now you know why a vinyl record is that much better then any digital equivalent from a scientific front. I didn't even mention their inherited greatness just for being a vintage item!
nightprowler1226
Member #3,537

Num Posts: 510
Country: US


LMMFAO!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5dCMz4gKLI
nightprowler1226
Member #3,537

Num Posts: 510
Country: US


another good 1: http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Vinyl-Records-Sound-Best---The-Analog-Vs-Digital-Debate&id=1358120 Analog vs. Digital: An analog format such as vinyl records are said to be more accurate to the source of the music than digital formats, which convert the music into a digital format, before being converted back to analog for reproduction. Vinyl records provide a more rich, warm tone than digital formats. The reason for this better tone is because the grooves on records provide more musical data to your amplifier. When the stylus (needle) fits into the groove of the record, it vibrates in such a way that is reminiscent of the soundwaves present when the artists performed the song. When amplified, you get a reproduction of the original performance. When the musical data is converted into a digital format, there are various "resolutions". To use photos as an example, it would be the difference between a 100x100 pixel picture, and a 1000x1000 pixel picture. For CDs, it is 16-bit. For DVD Audio up to 24-bit. Then, there is a sample rate, which is how often these photos are taken. For CDs, they happen 44,100 times per second. DVD Audio, up to 192,000 times per second. For SACDs, an amazing 2,000,000+ samples per second. You can see how the more advanced digital formats would sound better than CDs, which is how most people listen to digital music. In the case of digital formats like MP3 and AAC, some of the higher frequencies get pulled out to save space, in addition, these formats are taken from a CD, and compressed, so they could never approach the sound quality of a CD. I expect digital music formats to continue to gain in popularity, and I also expect even better formats to come out, with new digital format remasters, which could sound much better than a CD (Or even DVD-A or SACD), have more customization options, and of course, undisputed portability. Are you listening, record companies? How specifically vinyl sounds better: Vinyl seems to reproduce the higher frequencies much better. On digital, high frequencies (voices, cymbals, drums, etc.) sound thinner, harsher, "swishy", simply not as good. On vinyl, these high frequencies sound more natural, less harsh, more "real". Also, very small high-pitched nuances shine through better, like for example when a bass player plucks a string. Bass seems to sound fuller on vinyl as well. It sounds thicker, richer, more natural, more nuanced. It's nice. When listening to bass on vinyl, you'll know why so many DJs still use vinyl to this day. On digital, bass seems to be muddier, thinner...it has less impact. It's true that vinyl does have some weaknesses, such as pops and hiss, but these are eliminated if the record is clean. The pops and hiss also add a nostalgic charm to the sound of the music. Some artists, especially hip hop, have incorporated this sound into their music. If you love the sound of music, and want to hear something that has a better sound than CDs and MP3s, you should give vinyl a listen. Once you hear it, you'll become a fan too!
jspr96
Member #24,943

Num Posts: 260
Country: US
BANNED


quote by Jailbreakes: "I didn't know they released it on vinyl?" As I stated earlier, vinyl is on the comeback :)
olavi
Member #21,090

Num Posts: 113
Country: Finland


I think most people missed my point ;) My point was that I have never heard any album sound so good compared to the CD pressing. Vinyl always sounds better that the CD's, but here the difference is huge. Someone has really fucked up the remastering process.
nightprowler1226
Member #3,537

Num Posts: 510
Country: US


"You guys just reminded me, I saw a vinyl of Black Ice in a shop the other day. I didn't know they released it on vinyl?" i knew, i knew it about 23 copies over including the pic discs,the mis press with the clash on 1 side & the colored vinyl versions, LOL!!!
sapator
Member #210

Num Posts: 1,619
Country: Greece


Anyway in the long run people tend to prefer easiness than clearness, so Vinyl lovers can kiss my...LOL i'm joking, my long time friend above was about to execute me so,again.I'M JOKING. But let's face that the only reason DC released BI on Vinyl was because they are on a mission to take money from every possible combination.And Vinyl is obsolete like it or not. Now there are some devices like WADIA that can truly transform a cd.I have listen a valvestate with WADIA and B&W Nautilus speakers and was blown away.Mind you these set probably cost more than 20000Euros.Also the 16bit generator are obsolete and probably cd players are becoming obsolete also.And let's not pretend they are not bad vinyls.Some vinyl recording are horrible. But the single fact is that the river is not going back and i can only get Vinyl nowadays,if i want to,on the flea market or on a couple of small shops i know.Same with digital cameras, they were awful but i challenge you to find an analog camera today.... The only guff up was Laser Disks.They tried to imitate Vinyls they went down hard. So yes Vinyl is better but try to fit a vinyl player in your car stereo :P
jspr96
Member #24,943

Num Posts: 260
Country: US
BANNED


For all you vinyl HATERS (I believe only one here would be sapator!!) Just kidding!! http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm Vinyl Rocks!!!!!!!!!
nightprowler1226
Member #3,537

Num Posts: 510
Country: US


sap, ol' buddy,hate to tell you this,but vinyl is making a comeback & a huge 1 at that: http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/26/entertainment/et-vinyl26 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1702369,00.html http://www.psfk.com/2009/12/vinyl-records-and-turntables-make-a-comeback.html http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/commentary/listeningpost/2007/10/listeningpost_1029 & sap, pal of all pals ,if that's not enough to prove it,i can post many,many more links proving the fact that vinyl is coming back,like it or not. aww hell,what the fuck,here's a whole search of link to prove it,lol!!!! ;-) http://www.bing.com/search?FORM=MSN6A&lang=en-us&q=vinyl+records+making+a+comeback
sapator
Member #210

Num Posts: 1,619
Country: Greece


I don't wanna make you sad NP but i don't think so.These are all talk,i can find 1000 links that says the opposite, in reality i haven't seen anything that will back up that theory.It would be nice for you and the other guys but i don't see how it will happen. Another question is this: If (almost) all consoles are nowadays capture the sound in Digital format how would Vinyl be different in any aspect? I mean even DC are recording Digital now(?).I remember they got a huge Digi console? But i can feel your love for Vinyl if i am to compare it to my love of old games with the best gameplay ever.I'm sad that i won't ever feel that i actually enjoying my inner self with the new games and am sorry for those poor ol kids that think that they play the best games ever nowadays.So i guess you can feel sorry for me that i wasn't into Vinyl and give me a friend tap in the shoulder :) Hey but i was in Tapes!Best sound ever!! (NP you want a magnum or a Kalashnikov?)
jspr96
Member #24,943

Num Posts: 260
Country: US
BANNED


Nightprowler, some people will just be in the dark forever! Here is a link which truly compares the sound :) http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm
shithead
Member #975

Num Posts: 33
Country: Australia


in that alan handlman interview from 2003, malcolm states that he prefers the sound of the records as opposed to all the remasters, but can understand why people want them "cos the kids want more middle" but to get technical a cd can produce a fuller range of frequencies than a record can, a vinyl record can only reproduce frequencies between 40hz and 15khz, it is these frequencies that cause all the trouble with sub woofers and mp3 encoders/decoders... i have some great sounding mp3 rips, but i have some that sound like jelly!!!!! same thing with any recorded music, depends on how good the mix is originally determines how it sounds on various formats... and then there is mastering, remastering and re-remastering of cds like AC/DC (and the stones) have done.... sometimes you just gotta stop!!!!!! the albums sound fine, and they sounded fine 30 years ago!!!
shithead
Member #975

Num Posts: 33
Country: Australia


but i think that the 2003 re-masters (is that the digipacks??) sound better than the previous cd releases of the ac/dc back catalog and the 2003 cd's do sound comparable the old 80's red sticker albert represses of albums such as High Voltage, TNT and Dirty Deeds (common australian versions of course) these first 3 albums benifit from a bit of a modern day tweak, Let there be rock, powerage and if you want blood sound pretty good on the remastered cds compared to the original LP's (especially IYWB, cos of it's 20+ minutes a side length - and vinyl has an inverse signal to noise ratio where the more music per side, the quieter it gets... try any umpteen track super 80s or 70's hits lps for reference!!!) BUT albums like highway to hell, BIB, FTAR and FOTS already had that production which will easily see it through another 30 years (and people will be copying for longer), and you can't/shouldn't polish something that is already brilliant!!!! whereas fly on the wall NEEDED to be remastered!!!! it gives the frequencies under 1000hz some character and de-emphasises that "shit 80's" sound!!!!!! and it didn't hurt to give WMW, BUYV, Live and the Razors Edge a bit of a tweak... actually to me makes it a better listen than the original released versions, which when played on a modern system all sound weird in the bottom end... IN MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shithead
Member #975

Num Posts: 33
Country: Australia


just to add more to this, metallica have repressed all of their old LPs as double 12" records, because think about this... at 12 minutes a side, with a thicker cut, it is possible to get up to +6db of (linear) gain out of an LP, which is a freaking stomping loud record!!!! (due to the size of the grooves) - imagine a repress of If You Want Blood done in this fashion!!! (the original is sooo quiet!!) So heavy it would almost be impossible to lift it from the turntable!!!!! thats why i like to drag out my old AC/DC 12" singles sometimes, they scream!!!! so, three posts in a row hay... what a shithead!!!!! rant over!


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